How Video Became Our #1 Client Magnet - And How You Can Copy It

[00:00:00] 

Hey everyone, it's Jim Banks. I'm back. I've been away for, a sabbatical from digital marketing stories. I set up another podcast in the meantime. I thought I would take a break from digital marketing stories before I started, season three.

And I'm delighted to have a fantastic guest for you to kick off season three. I've got Kirsten Graham, where are you calling in from? Kirsten?

I'm in Sarasota, Florida.

I normally say rather than me butchering anything that's in your bio why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your business and how you got into business.

Sure. So I'm the co-owner of Six Figure Business Coaching, along with my partner Jeannie Wilson. And we really work with clients to help them outsource and automate, a lot of the things that they do in their business. Things like marketing, bookkeeping, things like, setting up your funnels and your website and your lead magnets, things like that.

our goal is to help people really lean into the support that they need, whether it's automation or delegation to grow their businesses.

And, [00:01:00] how long ago did you start the business?

it's been a little over 15 years ago, so. It's, it's had a lot of different directions. Businesses never seem to take a straight line. So we really started our business, partnership because Jeanie owned a marketing agency. And I had left real estate in 2000 and the end of 2013 and really started, my, my coaching business full-time at that point.

And over the years we've realized that small business owners often need, they just need simple and basic support. So maybe they can't afford a large agency, a marketing agency, or they can't afford, three or $400 a month for bookkeeping, or they don't need a tech support person on staff, but they need them, three or four hours a month to help them with, their, their software.

So we found a way to, to bridge the gap and fill that void. And we work with a lot of solepreneur, a lot of people in the service-based industry. And our message is, you don't have to do it all yourself. And I think that that's, 'cause being a business owner can be lonely at [00:02:00] times.

So we wanna make sure the business owners get the support that they need and enjoy their business more because they're doing more what they love.

And you're a podcaster I looked at your podcast beforehand. You've done about 120 episodes, which again, is phenomenal. and, you use video a lot for kind of some of your content creation. what is it that made you decide on videos being useful for, that purpose?

Yeah. I, I really, I'm gonna say something bold and maybe crazy, but I believe YouTube is going to be important, as important to business owners as a website was back in the nineties and two thousands. I feel like video marketing and with AI on the scene, I feel like video marketing is, is even more important because people are gonna want that connection and, Jim, rather than, meeting you with face-to-face, like in person, video is the second best thing.

And if you and I met regularly on Zoom over time, we feel like we know each other. And then if we did run into each other in person, we already have a relationship, right? And so I feel like video is incredibly powerful and every business [00:03:00] owner can find a way to leverage it.

I always say I've got a, a face for radio. But, I'm at the point now where it's really what comes outta my mouth. It matters not how I look or anything like that. I'm way too old to worry about what people think about wrinkles and whatever else.

It's just whatever. No, no big deal.

Same here.

I'm interested to understand a little bit, so in terms of like the community that you serve, how do they find you and what is it that attracts 'em to you than other business coaches or other, like podcast coaches 

Yeah, so we do have, we have two podcasts. We're getting ready to start a another YouTube channel about starting businesses and growing businesses. So we're very active on video. We, we tend to attract a lot of real estate agents because my background is real estate. And then we also work with a lot of coaches, because again, also Jeanie and I both are in the coaching space.

So we get a lot of business from our content and, people, and what's what's amazing is when people reach out to us because they've watched a few of our videos. They are actually quoting things [00:04:00] I've said or things that Jeanie has said. And Jen, like you brought up before we started recording my dog, she's often popping into videos and they'll ask, even ask about my dog.

So when people find you through your video content, they feel like they already have a relationship with you. And so they're also more or less sold on what you do. So I thought that was very, very powerful and I find it to be. Right up there next to getting a referral from a, a client who absolutely adores you is one of your raving fans, and they send someone over to you.

it's that same type of relationship coming from video. They feel like they know us. So that's where most of our come from, comes from.

sorry, carry on.

Yeah. So we get a lot of referrals. We have a lot of business that comes in through our, our networking. We also do things like, we teach master classes, so we have a masterclass for real estate agents on marketing and also on finances and bookkeeping. In some states, those are actually approved for CE credits.

So other companies will bring us in to provide those classes for the agents to [00:05:00] get the ce. So we, we have a lot of different opportunities. We're often, asked to speak. I personally hate public speaking and Jeannie loves it, so we kind of balance that out there. But yeah, just finding the, I guess connecting with the right people.

So important in our businesses. I think a lot of times when people think about video marketing, they think going viral. Well, the reality is you don't have to have a massive audience to bring in a lot of business. You just have to have the

audience.

Yeah. It's funny, I was watching a, a video that Alex Hormozi was doing with Sam Ovens. They, they, the kind of, so Sam created Skool, which is a community led platform. And Alex Hormozi is an investor in it. I mean they, what, they did a two hour, Basically talked through about, they had a whole bunch of their top Skool community owners in the room, and they were talking a little bit about what they were doing.

And and, and for me, again, it's fascinating. I think a lot of people, like here in the UK we have something called Marmite. And it's one of those things, you either love it or you hate it, right? And I think Alex Hormozi is a little bit like that. Either people love everything that he says and does, or they really [00:06:00] don't like it.

I mean, you could also probably throw Gary Vaynerchuck in the same bucket, right? People either love Gary V or they hate him, right? And there's no in between, there's no sort of middle line. and again, I, I've always maintained that, when, when you are in business, sometimes you are, you are, you're gonna break eggs and, and you have to kind of shake, shake the tree a little bit because, at the end of the day, nobody that's completely passive the whole time will really get on.

You have to be prepared to get up there, roll your sleeves up, and just get on and do stuff, right? And, and,and I think sometimes having, Whether it's a masterclass or a community or something that gives you an element of accountability. 'cause most people, when they work for themselves, they're working on their own.

They have maybe their families to support them and sometimes the family supports them by saying, Hey look, you just spend more time with the kids or you need to, take the trash out or this, that and the other. And it's sometimes it's very difficult to do get that balance.

And I think sometimes when you have a community of people who are like-minded, share the same experiences, can you bounce off each other? And I've always found that those types of networking, whether it is in person, I, again, I, I used to do a lot of in person, speaking before, [00:07:00] before COVID, less so since then.

but I always found in-person events invaluable. A lot of people say, oh, I don't need to go to them. I can just do zooms. I'm like, I, I think you miss some of that three dimensional thing by having the, the kind of in-person event rather than the actual face-to-face. So do you do any kind of in-person stuff at all in as far as your masterclass, you courage to meet people?

Sure, yeah. I'm actually speaking, on August 15th at a local event here. With a lady that I met through another networking group. I am very involved in our chamber. I'm involved in several networking groups in our community, and part of that is because, I can spend 10 hours a day in Zoom meetings, whether it's coaching clients or having sales calls or whatever.

So I really need to get out of the house and get fresh air. And like you said, there's a, a different relationship when you're meeting people in the 3D world, I guess you'd say. But one of the, and the, one of the things I often say to clients is, there's no such thing as really an online or offline business in most cases.

even if [00:08:00] you are a coach and you can work with anyone anywhere, there's a million dollars of business in your own backyard if you live in a halfway decent sized city. So being able to realize that you can have clients locally or from anywhere around the world is important. But I think when it comes to marketing, you really wanna lean into what you enjoy doing.

because I think that makes it a lot easier if we're doing what we like doing and what I have found for, we work with a lot of women and when you talked about not caring what people think about you on video, I think it, it is hard for a lot of people to be vulnerable and put ourselves out here and get on video and you, no one likes the way they sound on video.

So we spend a lot of time talking about how to show up as yourself on video and like you said, breaking the eggs. I'm not everyone's cup of tea, Jim, you're not everyone's cup of tea. We both, yeah. And actually I'm, I'm good with that, right? Because if, if you don't like the way I talk with my hands or you don't believe in the values that we have or the things that we think are important in our business and you can [00:09:00] learn that through our content, then you're not gonna reach out to me, which is great because.

If I'm not the right person for you, there's someone out there who can serve you and then you're not wasting your time or my time. So I hate to say it in some ways, video marketing can really, like I said, attract your ideal clients, but can also save you some time of by not attracting people who really would not be a good fit for you

what you do.

Yeah. 'cause I, I think, again, I, I always find w when it comes to, once I finish recording a podcast episode, I usually send it to Descript to get the transcript, and then from there I can remove filler words if I want to.

And I found the, the more podcast episodes I've done, I mean, I, I, I use a lot of filler words, right? So lots of ums, lots of uhs, lots of your knows kind ofs write, I say write all the time. And it's,for me it's just that, that's, that's me, that's my DNA, that's who I am. And, I just said it there.

And, and it's,and I, and I think sometimes it's probably 'cause I sold insurance for 12 years and quite often if you're talking to somebody, you wanna make sure that they understand what you're saying and by using Or, Do you [00:10:00] understand it? like you can make sure you haven't lost them somewhere, somewhere back here when you're trying to close some business.

So for me it was very difficult. So, but what IF what I found was like I said that with the, the, the podcasting side of things, I just found that more people seem to like the authentic, unedited kind of rough, rough stuff than the polished, all the sort of polished intros and everything else.

And I think, again, it, it's, it's a real challenge 'cause people talk about, say YouTube and, and I think you were right, you mentioned it before, YouTube Absolutely, I think is the future. I think here in the UK it's now become the second highest media consumption platform and it's just overtaken one of the commercial TV stations for people watching.

Basically tv, right? People are watching Connected TV and they're watching YouTube on it rather than, like it's called ITV, it's the only one that's ahead of them now is the BBC. And I'm pretty sure in just a few years time they'll probably be ahead of the, the BBC. And it's like anyone under the age of 40, right?

Probably doesn't watch [00:11:00] terrestrial TV as we call it. I dunno what you call it over there, but you know, terrestrial TV at all, right? They just literally watch Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, paramount, that's it. That's all they watch. And and because of that, I think that's. Part of the reason why some of the content creators have moved from say, CNN, I mean, a lot of the CNN sort of news reporters are absolutely killing it now on Substack, right?

'cause they can go live and they can interview people. They don't have to worry about how they dress and how they look, and they can swear if they want to. There's none of that sort of, filtering that used to apply when they were, an anchor for CNN, right? And they, they, they, they genuinely seem to be loving doing what they're doing, right?

I mean, piers Morgan was a, was a guy again, he's a very,you either love him or you don't love him. And, and again, he's now got over 4 million subscribers on YouTube, and he's become one of the most successful podcasters, right? By virtue of the fact that although it's a sort of talk show, you can either listen to it or you can watch it, and then if you watch it, it just enhances the experience by seeing [00:12:00] people.

But if you listen to it, you still get the context. There's, there's no. Product demonstrations or screenshots present. It's like it's all just literally, people could, could turn the, the picture off for this, listen to the audio on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and get the same experiences the people. Watching it on YouTube, but the people watching on YouTube may get some other stuff that we leave in and, and everything else.

And I think the, the challenge for me is like when you read all about, getting views on, on YouTube, it's I want to try and be conscious, as you said, of the people who are I'm servings time, right? So I, so for me, I always put a timestamp in, in terms of, this is what we talked about in this period here.

So if this, if somebody wants to come in and dive in, dip into an episode, 25 minutes into it, that's great. I'm, I'm happy for them to do that. And if it's a four minute segment, great. They can watch that four minutes and if they like it, they'll probably go, well, that was pretty good. I'll go back and listen to some others and, watch others and that sort of thing.

So for me, I'm, I'm much more interested in doing that. [00:13:00] Than having the vanity of having people staying on my podcast for, four hours, two hours or whatever. I just, again, I'm much more, concerned about the people watching rather than my own kind of ego. My ego, it doesn't really matter. I just care about my guests and I care about the,the people listening or watching the podcast to get value out of it.

It's so funny you say that because a lot of our clients do start podcast, video podcast. And it's interesting. I think if you do focus on your guests and your listeners, you'll always

win, Right?

we always tell our guests our goal is to make you

look like a rock star.

Like we want you to have a great experience.

We want this episode to be something that you're proud to promote

and it showcases

you and your unique abilities. And I think when you focus on your audience and your guest, again, it comes through as authentic and real. And people feel like,

you're a giver.

And in a world

of takers,

It's so nice to be around somebody who wants to truly

serve people.

rather than, you

know, just rack up subscribers

or

views [00:14:00] or,

not that those things aren't important, but if you focus on what is really important, those things

follow up.

Yeah. I always say my, my YouTube channel's probably got one of the slowest growth ever. I think I've been on YouTube for about 12 years and I'm approaching 400 subscribers.

But I know, 'cause I've had it happen to me. I've, I've been to lots of conferences, spoken at conferences all around the world. I know a lot of people have watched and listened to some of my podcast episodes. And therefore they're consuming my content. The fact they don't, don't subscribe, I don't care.

I mean, again, I'm not so vain that I need to care about whether they subscribe to the channel or not. I'd love them to subscribe. 'cause that's almost like a good signal to say, yeah, I like that. That was good. but, but generally speaking, I'm a, I'm a lot less kind of, bothered about, about it from a vanity perspective.

So for that reason, you guys should all subscribe to Jim's channel showing some.

Oh, you, you are so, you are so, so kind. so, so your, your, community is kind of like, it's, it's a, so helping people to grow to [00:15:00] six figures, right? A hundred thousand. What I'm, again, I, I've, I've had a few conversations backwards and forwards with people.

Why is that number so important? What is it about a hundred thousand dollars that is so instrumental in helping people to succeed?

Yeah.

So, when you think about that concept, if you talk to everyone, you talk to, no one. So when we started thinking about who do we truly wanna serve, we wanna serve the people who you know are in their business. maybe they're making 50,000, 75, maybe they have hit a hundred and they wanna hit 250.

Or people who are really, they're newer. Maybe they're really just getting started in their business. We know early on if those people will leverage things like evergreen content by YouTube, or if they'll take advantage of leaning into audit automations and things like that, they can save them a lot of time and really help them build and nurture.

The people that are on their list, or even bookkeeping. It's, it's interesting, there's such a great statistic among people who are successful and the fact that they are on top of their finances, on top of their [00:16:00] numbers compared to people who are not. And if you're worried at tax time because you don't have no idea, how much money you brought in or where that money went and, and you're not prepared at all for tax time, you know that, that causes a lot of stress and it takes you away from focusing on growing your business.

So for us, it's really,

Yeah, yeah. And I think, we, with our Love Your Profit program, our goal is ultimately to help our clients fall in love with their money. And when you understand your money, then you can make decisions. like you, you run ads for people, you've been running ads for ages, So a, a person needs to understand where their finances are to determine, is this the right time to hire an expert to run ads for me? do I have enough cash flow consistently coming in to have a good ad budget for the next four to six months, or, whatever you recommend. And they can't do that without really having a close relationship with their finances, where their money's coming from and what those cycles look, look like for their clients as far as buying.

So that's important to us. The other thing, when it comes to growing your business to six figures and [00:17:00] beyond, it's understanding that we have to market our businesses consistently. And we had, a client who was super successful. She actually does professional organizing, so she goes into people's houses and helps them organize.

But she was also amazing at marketing. The problem was she would market, she'd get a few clients, and then she's really busy doing client work. She's, huffing it around the hot garages, organizing and, working in their homes. And then she's at home with her children in the evenings. So her income was always as rollercoaster, simply because, when she'd start working with clients, she just stopped marketing.

And once she outsourced the marketing and was interesting for her, she had a dilemma of not knowing how she felt ethically about hiring someone overseas rather than hiring someone locally. And so we talked a lot about that and she ultimately, decided to do that. And what happened was her business grew to the point where now she employs four or five other professional organizers in her area to [00:18:00] take on client work.

So sometimes people think outsourcing might be one or the other, oh, you're gonna send all your money to someone overseas rather than hiring someone locally. But we have found that businesses that actually invest in getting support early on actually build their businesses faster and then can often bring on people in the states or hire, like I said, agencies like you to do things for them.

Yeah, it's funny, it's, it's funny you mentioned about, like building a list. I, I found, again, I, I've always said one of the best secrets that most of the YouTubers successful YouTubers have is they have a really big email list. So when they, whenever they have a new episode gets put out, they can send out an email, send it out to people, and before you know it, you've had 50,000 views of a, of a video right out the gates.

And, and obviously, the views per hour is one of the most important metrics that YouTube look for, like it's views per hour is, it's a, it's a metric that they, they value. I mean, if they say, if you velocity of people watching it is high, they're more likely to show it to other people [00:19:00] because they'll assume that it's a good video that other people should see as well.

And that, that's what I found is quite often the secret to why, somebody can drop a video and within, minutes they've got 20,000 views on a video and and it's very successful because of that, right? So they actually become good email marketers as well as content creators on YouTube.

So,

And if we flip that, from the fact that Jeanie's been helping people market, for the past 20 plus years, we have seen things happen. websites crash, people forget to pay for their domain name and then they can't

get it back for a couple of months. or early 

They,

they didn't renew google.com 'cause, 'cause somebody had worked for Google, he was the person who registered it and he left the company and nobody kind of took over his email. So it just lapsed. And

right? Yeah. As a business owner, those are things easy to happen. you miss paying for your domain name and now all of a sudden you can't get it for 60 days, whatever that case may be. But with, being involved with Facebook early on, back when Facebook first had fan pages, it was [00:20:00] so exciting to see business owners hop on Facebook and really just get amazing traction early on.

The mistake a lot of people made was they didn't lean into also having a website or having an email list. And then what happened was, along the way, if anything happened to Facebook, Facebook blocked 'em, or Facebook stopped pushing their content out. All of a sudden their business was dying on the vine because that was really their only outlet.

And so, I think it's important to have the email list because we never know what's gonna happen with any of the social media platforms that we're on. An email allows you to have direct contact with your customers. But it's interesting if, if we take the flip side of what you were talking about, people that have massive email lists and they send out their videos and they get massive views.

On the flip side of that, from a coaching perspective. When I ask clients if they have an email list, they'll often say yes. And it may be a list of 50, it could be 500, it could be 5,000. But what's always fascinated me is when you ask, well, how often do you [00:21:00] email them? And sometimes it's, I've never emailed them.

They signed up for my lead magnet and they got, a couple emails after that and that was it. So one of the things that we have found is that business owners are busy, but in order to nurture and maintain relationships with people who are on your email list, you need to to at least email them once a week.

And that's where I feel like so many people's videos or their podcasts come in handy. So if you have a business, you have a, a small to mid-size email list, and you're not emailing them, you're missing out an opportunity. But now, if you create this video once a week, you have something fantastic to send to your email list.

And it's always fascinating when we're working with people who literally get business from sending out their first video.

And

It's because, the person was already on their list. The person already knew them. Maybe they hadn't heard from 'em in months. But, one, one case was a real estate agent.

They sent out their first video, the woman got a call and it was basically like, Hey, I didn't even know you'd gone into real estate till I saw your video. And I'd love to know, do, [00:22:00] do you work with people who buy land? I wanna buy some land. And so we see this often is that people, once they really start using their email list and they promote their video content through that, they end up getting business that way.

Yeah. 'cause I, again, I, I always, I'm always amazed people that go into business for themselves, they're always apologizing for trying to sell things to people. I'm like, why? you, again, I've, I always said don't present somebody with a problem that you have a solution for, and then don't give them the solution.

You need to help solve the problem. That's part of the reason why, you know, in, in a lot of cases you are showing them a problem or talking to them about a problem. Then they're completely oblivious to having, they don't know that they got, gotta do taxes. They don't know need an accountant or bookkeeper.

They don't know that hosting could be an issue. They don't know that domains can cut up lapse. Whereas people like us, I mean, we've been doing it for a while, we know sometimes we know through our own, mis missteps that, that that can be an issue. So for me it's, again, it's sort of like that's part of the reason of what you bring to the table, right?

You can bring that experience to the table [00:23:00] to ensure that they can mitigate for as many of those sorts of issues as possible. While they just focus on growing their business. And, and as you say,I mean, I've been outsourcing, work to, I, I mean I started off initially I used to outsource, Development work to Russia, and then Russian developers became too expensive, so I outsourced it to India, and then Indian, it, it became too expensive. I outsourced to Ukraine. and now a a lot of the, the work that I do for bookkeeping and stuff like that is done through the Philippines.

but equally I've, I've seen sort of situations where there's a lot of people that work in the armed forces and people up uproot from where they are to go be posted overseas, still wanna work, but don't have the flexibility to be able to do a nine to five job or whatever. Whereas somebody like me, who, who can offer them, look, I don't, again, I, I employ, say employ, I, I pay for, contractors to do a lot of work.

And I always say, look. I don't really care when you do the work as long as the work gets done. So if you have kids, you can build your workload [00:24:00] around the, the kids right? Gonna school picking them up, whatever. I mean, if you have toddlers, then they might go for a sleep for a couple of hours, you can do a couple hours of work.

And again, for me, it's much more about are we delivering the results that our clients expect of us? Not, are we all in the office between nine and five? And his proof of that, right? Because that's the, I, I've always maintained if a client wants to start managing you that way, they're not the sort of client for us.

And we, we would typically resign an account like that. Like honestly, if they wanna micromanage our time. they don't employ us, right? They, they hire us to provide value, right? I mean, we're a performance agency. If we don't perform, we expect to be kicked out, right? We just don't expect to have them as clients for along equally if they don't help us to help them, right?

So if we say, Hey, we need to, need this to be done, and they go, well, we can't do that for six months, then, I'm, I'm not gonna be on the hook for the performance not being good. 'cause I've identified the problem now. And they, they, they know what their solution is and if they can't prioritize it, then you know that that's on them, not on me.

It really, so, [00:25:00] yeah,

Yeah, it's interesting 'cause we, we've outsourced over the past, I think it's been 18, 19 years now. We think we've outsourced to six different countries. We've literally hired hundreds of virtual assistants and trained them for our clients. And it's interesting. One of the things that we teach, to both our clients and the virtual assistants that we hire are cultural differences.

Sometimes I think when it comes to managing similar overseas or having someone work for you halfway around the world, we forget about cultural differences. And a great thing is Americans, we communicate very aggressively compared to a lot of people in the rest of the world. And we don't know that we communicate aggressively and we don't necessarily mean it to, to be aggressive.

It just sounds aggressive. So, and Filipinos are the opposite. They communicate very softly, very kindly, and very respectfully. And so talking about those different differences in communication styles and how to bridge the gap and handle it, little things like that that really caught us early on were things that we've been able to really bring to the table for education for both [00:26:00] our clients and their VAs, making it easier for both sides to have the win-win.

And you're so right though. It's, it's interesting to, to see people move from country to country when it comes to outsourcing based on pricing. And it's interesting how different countries really specialize in different niches, of, of who's great with, a website design or who's great with, different types of marketing or, or writing and things.

So it's interesting when you think about outsourcing

specialties.

Yeah, I mean, I, I found to my cost, I, I, outsourced a lot of, I mean we called it grunt work that made it sound that it wasn't important and didn't matter, but it really did matter a lot.

And I, I outsourced some of the, the kind of the more mundane stuff, day-to-day things that, probably AI could take care of like easily now, But at the time it, it couldn't. and I outsourced it to India and what I found was that, my team in the office where I was were basically palming off all the stuff they didn't wanna do to the people in India rather than.

The people in India doing the, the things that we [00:27:00] hired them for, they were just, and again, I, I've got no, again, in no way at all is this a kind of detrimental to Indian people, but I just find that they're much better at doing things that are less creative. And I don't mean that in, like I said, in a derogatory way, but sometimes English isn't necessarily their first language, so it is sometimes get lost in translation.

So I wouldn't give them copywriting ad copy, things like that. But my team were, and the, the kind of ad copy was coming back and it wasn't very good. And it wasn't until I realized that that's kind of what, what was happening, that I was in there able to change what we were doing and how we were doing it.

I mean, I went over to India for about 10 days to train the seven people that I'd hired to do the work. I wanted them trained my way. and the guy who I was outsourcing the work to, he, he actually said, Jim, is it all right if I put some more people in the room so that they can learn as well?

I'm like, sure. So I ended up, I think I was trading about 35 people. and I, I trained them all my way of, of managing paid ads. And it turned out, I mean, I sold my company in 2006, I think for $4 [00:28:00] million. He sold his company about. Two years later, 2008 for $40 million. So, you know what, what was really interesting is that, that, he was able to go and talk to some of the big financial institutions in India, And show them how good they were at doing the stuff that I taught a lot of his staff on. Which I, again, I thought was genius really. So they were able to hire a local kind of team of people, but they had the expertise of people that, that weren't local. So,

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. One of the other things you just brought up was ai, and it used to be the thing was eliminate, automate, delegate. Now it's really eliminate, eliminate things that don't need to be done in your business. So often we waste time spinning our wheels on things that just don't matter.

But then the next step is, can you use AI to get it done quickly and efficiently? can you automate. It and or can you outsource it? Can you delegate it? And those, the three things when you combine them together, I think is your, your real win. our VAs are all trained on different types of ai.

we work with our clients on all different types of [00:29:00] prompts that they can use for their scripts and their content, for their landing pages and lead magnets. So we need to take all of those tools and figure out how to combine them in the way that makes the most sense based on each person's, skillset and what they enjoy

within their business.

Yeah. 'cause they're not all, all, all, LLMs are not the same. They're all, they all do a different sort of job in some regards.

Again, I got an email this morning from Google. They're obviously pimping quite hard there, Gemini and all the tools around that. So they were trying to, they were trying to show an example of. somebody being able to create all this stuff that they must have, they must have cited probably 12 different AI related products, right?

And I'm like, whoa, this is way too complicated. And probably complicated equals expensive. That that's what I, I was thinking in my mind that, they were talking about using VEO and this, that, and the other, and I'm like, whoa, this just again, let's just try and dumb it down. I think that's one of the challenges sometimes, certainly when I'm buying ads, I always find sometimes [00:30:00] agencies overcomplicate something that should be really, really simple, right?

ultimately, PE people should be I I, I, I used to sell insurance for a living, and it was always, feature, advantage, benefit, right? You always need to focus on the benefit, not on what the feature is. And so many people are going out selling things on features, right? And people, again, I don't care what the features are, I just care what the benefit, what does it do for me?

Not what is it? And everything else, that's not really what it's about. It's about the, the benefits that I get from it.

Absolutely. And sometimes with ai, I think that's hard because we don't always know what the benefits are when we first try to find a new AI tool and figure out if we're gonna learn it and how we're gonna implement it. But yeah, I think that's one thing we always need to ask ourselves because learning AI tools can be time consuming.

And I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm just saying we need to always ask ourselves like, what are the true benefits to me and my business if I learn

use this tool effectively?

Yeah.

And, and I still, I still to this day think that it's probably like 85, 90% of all the people that, that say they're using [00:31:00] ai. I just going copy from some prompt they've seen somewhere else, paste, enter, done. That's it. That's all they do. And if that's what, if that's what they've, they've arrived at, then terrific.

But you know that that's not really the way the problems are gonna be solved. For, for businesses. So.

No, not at all. And AI has so many incredible uses and possibilities, but I do think it's hard, especially, if you're a solepreneur or you, like you said, in your situation you're like us, you outsource a lot. you have to find the time to really investigate the tools and then start to learn the tools and figure out how to best use them.

And I think that we need to realize our time is one of our most valuable assets. So often I'll delegate that. I'll say, Hey, here are three new AI tools, to our software VAs that I've read about. Review them and tell me how we could implement 'em and how we could use 'em, what the benefits would be and what the learning curve is.

So we're always looking at tools and AI specific tools, but always very cautious as to how much time we spend on them [00:32:00] before we know

we can really get outta them.

Yeah, I mean, one of the,places that a, a lot of people will go to, to outsource their sort of VA hiring is a, a company called onlinejobs.ph, and the guy John Jonas that set that up,he, he obviously had a, an issue, his wife is pretty sick and he had three young kids, so he needed to find a way.

So he, he set up this, online jobs company, but not only does it help you recruit people, Which is quite important. He, he, he talks through like how to recruit people, what sort of things to do in terms of the interview process and, and again, some of the nuances of Filipino people and what they're like and what they're not like, and some of the challenges that you might have.

Things like typhoons and natural disasters, which happen more frequently there because it's a big sort of archipelago of art, small islands, and they all kind of wolf. Time, from time to time, internet will just vanish for 2, 3, 4, 5 days. And it's you can't really expect people to do work if they don't have that.

Capability to access things. But what was really interesting is not only did you have the [00:33:00] ability to be able to recruit people, so you can type in your, this is what I'm looking for, and they would give you a kind of, you could put the spec in and then people would start applying for the job, 

Once you actually hired somebody, they would have a whole backend of this is, this is the, the training material that you can give them to show them how to do certain things. I mean, it's, I think it's quite outdated now, but, but that, that was for me was invaluable, was that I was able to take the training that I thought was okay.

I thought, well, if I was gonna train them, I'd probably train them on the same things. But there's also things where, it did, didn't quite fit my business. So I would introduce other modules that I've. Could say, this is the way we do things. And it's slightly different than the way it's been taught there.

But then that way you are getting somebody who is, properly trained. And, and for me, it's like anyone that you hire, whether it's somebody in the Philippines, somebody locally to you, right? You need to invest in their development, right? You need to invest time and money into helping them get to the point where they can succeed for you.

Because if you don't, and just expect 'em to get on with it, right? Then they'll fail miserably and leave, and you, you're back to [00:34:00] square one of having to fill a vacancy, which you shouldn't have had. And, I'm a bit concerned now that a lot of companies are probably tightening their belts a bit and they're trying to discourage people from attending live events, attending training sessions, Because of money. And I think in some respects that's a, a kind of missed opportunity that you, you still need to send people out to, to learn, right? And to be educated by some of their peer groups at conferences that, would be relevant for, for the industry that they're in.

So.

Yeah, and

I'm sure you've heard this a million times, we hear it all the time. I hired a virtual assistant and it didn't work out. If I had to spend that much time telling 'em what to do, it's not worth it. And the biggest challenge small business owners have is they don't have SOPs, they don't have standard operating procedures.

And we joke that SOPs aren't sexy, but they're the spine of your business. And that's one of things. Yeah. My business partner is one of her unique abilities is creating awesome SOPs. And so whether I'm working with a one-on-one client like I've hired for law firms, I'll help them hire medical records [00:35:00] directors for from the Philippines or other countries, or again, we work with a lot of CPA firms or bookkeeping companies and helping them hire bookkeepers.

it's important for me that the companies that are, helping them hire and they have to have really detailed processes in place already, they have to have their standard operating procedures in place. In order to make sure that they can onboard that new virtual assistant, quickly plug them in and get them up and running.

The other thing that I really focus on, with our clients is making sure that you're a person just because they're halfway around the world, they're still part of your team and you should treat them like part of your team, and so a lot of our clients have a screen in the, in the conference room, and when they do their Monday morning meetings, their virtual assistants are right there on Zoom in that meeting.

And so when you think about outsourcing, like you said before, it's like the grunt work or just throwing people a bunch of tasks. if you look at it differently, if you look at it like you're investing in a team member who's very, very affordable and although they're halfway around the world, they can [00:36:00] do great work for you and contribute to your business.

They can learn new things if you, if you wanna invest the time and money into training them. And they can often move up into different positions in your business. And so outsourcing is really more powerful than I

a lot of people realize.

Yes. It's funny, I've, I, I've lost count of the number of times I've hired somebody and said, this is our process for doing this.

And like a couple of days later they go, well, I, I did it that way and it didn't work, but I've, I did it this way instead, and I've recorded it and you know this. And I'm like, brilliant. We'll, we'll use that. That's, that's the way we do it now. Because, again, like a lot of my SOPs were like, they're quite historically probably out of date.

I mean, I, that's the, the thing that's always amazed me. I've got a lot of friends in the industry who have written books, And I've never understood the kind of, the desire for people to write a book. Because, again, I, I've seen people that are making seven figures a year, eight figures a year going, I'm writing a book.

And when you look at proportionately how much effort they put into producing a book that they may sell a couple of thousand copies [00:37:00] of, it's almost like they just have it on their bucket list. I've gotta write a novel or write a, write a book, write whatever. And I'm like. Good. You, you, do you.

That's fine, right? I having enough trouble reading a book, nevermind, like thinking about writing one, but, but, but what's interesting is that in most cases, if it's a, a kind of an information book about SEO or something like that, by the time the book arrives right, probably 50% of what's in there is outta date, right?

Because things have moved on. I mean, if you, if you look at it, all the books I've got, not one of them probably mentions AI ever. Any of them, right? And it's well, does that mean that that the stuff's in it is wrong? I mean, again, one, one of my favorite authors of all time is Claude Hopkins, who I think died in 1930 or something like that.

He, he's been a, probably dead nearly a hundred years, but he wrote a couple of great books on scientific a advertising and and it's, again, you, you just, for me, I just need to read between the lines. I'm not, it's not just the words that are there. 'cause it's relating to a period of time when maybe selling was done without technology and everything [00:38:00] else.

It was all about coupons and clipping coupons and things like that. And but it's a great book and I can see when you look at some of the current big, massive companies like your Facebooks and so on, you can see their model in some of the, the text in some of these books, right?

It's almost says something's read and go. I like, I can do that and bring it into, the 21st century. So

Yeah, I'm like you. I've never really had that strong desire to write the book, and I think it's, like you said, it's the disproportionate return on investment or. Turn on time and I, I think that people at this stage stage, we'd rather watch a video than read even a blog post. So that's why I think for so many people creating video content, it makes more sense.

And then a lot of times for people who have created a lot of video content, they can almost go back and string a book together based on a lot of the things that they've taught in their, in their videos. So it is interesting. But yeah, with marketing, writing a book is so crazy because things

so quickly.

But that, that's one of the things I love about podcasts is, like I, I, I really enjoy [00:39:00] going out, walking, right? So typically I'll try and walk for an hour because, if I walk for any lesson and hour, I don't feel I'm getting the, the sort of cardio, value out out of the actual walk itself.

So usually I just put a pair of headphones in, pull up a podcast, listen to it, walk around, And again, I'm, I'm, I know I probably should have somewhere I'm taking notes and everything as I go along, but I think if I hear it and I'll get back and I'll write down the, the, the kind of the notes before I do anything.

but again, it's invaluable how often I pick up something great from somebody who's not a kind of direct competitor of mine or anything like that. It's just somebody who is, has done well as a content creative video producer, whatever it is, and they're explaining how they've.

They took their business from where it was to where it is. And you just put it with, with your sort of your business, your model, your ideas and turn it around. I mean, no, no. Very few people come up with a very unique idea. It's just a different spin on the same idea that other people maybe have had success with.

Absolutely. It's

funny you say that because one of the things that we encourage our clients to do if [00:40:00] they're starting. A YouTube channel or a podcast, a video podcast, do some market research, see what's already out there or what are other people doing, what's working, what's not working. And it is so crazy to me that small business owners, the concept of market research to them, I don't know if it's just a completely foreign concept where they feel like it's a waste of time, but yet you look at bigger companies, McDonald's isn't gonna build a new location without doing a massive surveys and, and traffic and making sure that this would be a great location, or they're not gonna roll out the McRib until they've done a ton of research and they've run it in a small market to make sure it's viable.

And yet, business owners will often go on and just create, whether it's courses or content, without ever doing market research. And it's, it's free, it's easy. And you get to see, again, like you talk about competitors, there's people who are our competitors. That we can watch what they're doing and learn from them or learn what they're doing that we don't want to do.

But then, like you said, there's a lot of adjacent industries, which are not direct competitors, [00:41:00] but you can also glean a lot from their, their content or their courses or their programs or what they've done to figure out

best way to move forward.

Yeah, I used to, I used to go to a, a conference in, in Vegas in January, called Affiliate Summit.

And again, it's been a great show. I've met based some phenomenal lifetime friends from it. and quite often the show is on either just before or just after the, the kind of the AVN which is the adult video Network kind of shows. And again, to, to your point, I find. I find it fascinating because, if you look at the adult industry, I'm not interested in the adult industry for the porn element of it.

For me, it's the fascination of how they are at like, video compression and serving videos and like all the, all the, the kind of behind the scenes stuff, not the people on camera, but the behind the scenes stuff of marketing and promotion and everything. I just think there's, in a lot of cases, they're so far ahead of other industries and I've, I've tried to pick people's brains from, from that industry to understand a little bit more about it.

my wife's not [00:42:00] so keen about me saying I'm gonna go to this porn convention, but, it's all research, right?

It's all research. Yes. Yeah. But again, it, it's, it is interesting that you've identified that that specific industry is ahead in certain areas and that does make sense. I think they have, they have a lot of Im limitations on how they can market, So what they can do, they have to be really good at, they have to figure out ways around it and ways to make it really work for them.

that's an interesting line that you, yeah, I mean

things like I said, video processing, hosting, right?

'cause again, they have to host big files and serve it and different, different resolutions. So, 4 80, 7 20, 10 80 4K, and then obviously you have the payment processing. So in a lot of cases, like they need to understand how that's done. And, again, chargebacks and things like that clearly quite high.

So they, again, they've, they've gone through all the pain that a lot of industries go through, And,and, and quite often you can learn so much from, again, walking the floor and talking to the people that you know, that do that sort of thing. 'cause it's, it's [00:43:00] really interesting. I've, I've found I see a lot of people that only go to their industry events.

I've got other o other friends who have started to go to. Industry events for the community which they serve and have a booth there. So imagine if you have a, a kind of a, a, an event that's all for, lawyers in Chicago, right? And there'll be a lawyers convention in Chicago.

There might be three, 4,000 people go, right? And there's all these people with different booths for different things. And then there's a person there that's got a booth for SEO or paid search for, for, for lawyers in Chicago. And people are like, oh, that's interesting. That's a new, that's a new kind of take on, the type of people that they normally meet.

And as you say, like you don't need to necessarily like land 50 clients. You might just pick up one or two, and that's justified the cost of you being there. And I'm, I'm surprised that not more people are doing that. They're still focusing on just their industry events and not thinking a little bit, more laterally.

Yeah,

It's interesting because we do have a lot of clients [00:44:00] who, they're enjoying their video content and now they wanna move on to speaking and, they don't realize that there's like associations for almost everything out there. So if you can find a local association, and you start offering them free courses and you come in and do speaking at their events, they'll eventually tell the state level about you and then you can move up and speak at the state level.

And then if you do a great job there, you might get invited to speak at their national events, but people often don't wanna take that first tiny step and speak somewhere, work at a local association. And if it's your ideal clients, why would you not do that? One of the one of the things I used to always say when we're talking about videos, not get a lot of views or, or not taking off the way you want them to.

I would always ask people, so you're a coach. I said to you, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to speak to 40 people who are your ideal clients, but you have to drive an hour to get there and an hour back, and you're gonna speak for an hour. So three hours total, unless you decide to stay kind of network, would you do that?[00:45:00] 

And inevitably people say yes. Well, why the heck will you not spend one hour a week creating an awesome video that you put out there? Maybe 40 people see it, maybe 400 people see it. But here's the big difference. It's more cost. It's more cost effective time-wise than it is driving that hour to and from, and speaking in person.

But more importantly, you've created, you've created a a an A asset that's working for you 24 hours a day. So I don't know about you, but we've had videos that have been on our channel for a while, and then all of a sudden they take off, and you're like, well, what happened there? it didn't get a ton of traction, and then it did.

So. The video, we were circle back to video, but video has such a powerful return on investment than what return on our time. So it's always interesting how I think people think about things. Again, I wanna speak on big stages, but I don't wanna start with a local associations. I wanna speak in, I wanna get my message in front of people, in front of my ideal clients, and I'll drive an hour to do this, thing in front of 40 people, but [00:46:00] I won't invest an hour to create a video that could get in front of not just 40 of my ideal clients, but 400 or 4,000 or 400,000.

and that asset's working for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for years.

Yeah. It's if, you look at

webinars, a lot of people go, oh, I don't wanna do webinars 'cause I only got three people that are sending my last one.

It's yeah, but there's three people live at that time. But that's like an evergreen piece of content that you can promote again and again and again. You can get people to sign up whenever you like. And they can go watch it at their leisure. Doesn't need to, you can make it on demand so they can just get it.

They need to sign up through the, the kind of the, the form to kind of get, get into it. And again, I've, I picked up a bunch of, of referrals from people through watching a, a webinar and I'm like, I did I do that one? It's three years ago. And, and, I, I wish I did more webinars.

I mean, I, I wanna do more. but, but in some respects, like I said, I've become more like a podcasting person rather than a webinar person. And I just enjoy, again, I enjoy podcasting. I definitely have picked up [00:47:00] clients from having a podcast, so I'm less bothered about Apple rankings.

Spotify ran, I, I don't care. But, but knowing that people have watched it, it resonated with them and they've reached out to me and said, I watched the podcast episode that you did with this person. And,and I'd, I'd love to talk to you about how we can work together.

Great. Fantastic. That's, that's, that's is achieve what I, what I set out to achieve with it. Which is to help people, educate people. And if I pick up some work on it, great. Fantastic.

Yeah. And for most of us, we, we, you and I probably serve a lot of the similar audience, but we sell very different things, so it gives us a great opportunity. Jeannie and I keep a running list of people who provide different services that our clients needs so that we can recommend them, because she will always ask, someone who does YouTube ads you, someone who does, this or that.

And so for us to be able to say, yes, I met this person. He's a great guy. Here's his information, reach out to him or I'll do an email and introduce the two of you. So we find that from hosting a podcast, not only do you need to have [00:48:00] this fabulous conversation with someone halfway around the world you've never met, and I always learn things from our guest and our host, but it's, it's amazing because now you have, you have this new referral partner, possibly.

And so I think podcasting is, it's, it's magical in a lot of ways. I didn't expect

we first started our podcast.

Yeah. I mean, for, for me, I, I just, I got to one Christmas, I think I got Christmas one year, and I'm like. I think I, I think I set up a podcast, so I kind of like went and did a bit of research, what do I need to do, hosting company, blah, blah, blah. And before, I launched the podcast.

I, again, I've had some great guests including yourself. You've been fantastic. I love, I love, love the conversation. But, but for me, it was about just, just trying to try and to take myself and put myself, myself in a, in a area that was outside my zone of comfort, right? I just, I, I'd done lots of speaking keynotes, MCing, moderating, right?

But never this kind of thing, right? And,and, and ultimately, again, I I, I, I'd like to think I've developed my own style for doing [00:49:00] them. because to me that's, that's what you should do. I mean, a lot of people, I, you need to do this, this, this, this. And I'm like, well, if you wanna do that, knock yourself out.

But that's not the way I'm gonna do it. So

Yeah, you have to bring your yourself to the, to the podcast, right? do it in a way that makes, that feels right to you, that showcases who you are and how you operate. Because I'm sure if someone's seeing you here on this podcast interview or any of your interviews, you're the same person. That is going to show up on a Zoom call with them to talk to them about working with you and your company.

So you, I think you really do just have to show up as yourself. It, you host your interviews in a way that feels, to you. you can't really step into someone else's shoes and try to be them in any type of video content because it won't come off. It'll feel, it won't feel right to people. I think that's the other thing is we have to show up as ourselves

In order for the people to really connect with us.

Yeah, no, I mean, I, I have industry friends, people that work in affiliate marketing or search and, and, and we've never done business together, ever, but I've known them for 20 years. Whenever we go, [00:50:00] we always hang out, go out for dinner, they introduce me to their clients, I introduce 'em to my clients.

It's but we've never actually directly done any work together. But they know me, they like me, they trust me. And if somebody says, Hey, do you know anyone at business? Talk to Jim. And, exactly.

And, and, and ultimately, like I said, I, I didn't sit out with that as the, the goal, but it's it's really nice when that sort of thing happens.

So I, I always find like you, you see there's a lot of maybe agency owners that potentially are struggling right now, right? Because I can't find any clients. It's people say, well, how do you find clients? I'm like, I don't, they find me. I don't have to, I don't do any outbound marketing at all.

I mean, I, I suppose by doing podcast episodes, that's outbound marketing, but, but I don't directly reach out to anyone or anything like that. People just hit me up and go, Hey, I've got a problem. I need some help with this. And,again, if, if I like them, well enough to pursue the conversation, great.

And if I don't think we're a good fit, I'll just say, I don't think we'd be a good fit. And, and, but talk to this person. They might be a better agency for you to work with. So for me, it's, I, I, [00:51:00] again, whether that's just, I'm just very fortunate to be in that position or not, I dunno.

But, that's, that's where I find myself so.

Well, it, it's so smart because when we take on clients that are not ideal for us, it's not, it's not a good relationship on either side. It never really ends well. So I think when you really have a process to vet your clients, and again, we do the same thing. Not everyone is going to be right for our programs, right?

So we wanna make sure that they are a good fit and it's going to be win-win, not just for our client, but also for the virtual assistant that they bring onto their team. And like you, we always keep a list of who could we refer someone to if we can't help them, if we're not the best

So I love that you do that as well. But, but

I, I, I've got other, other friends that I, I've known for a while and they won't refer anyone to anyone else unless there's something financially in it for them. Some sort of kickback or whatever. I'm like, I just, I, I would feel bad if that's the way I was referring people or this person gives me 10% of the, the, the value of the [00:52:00] deal.

This person gives me 20, I'm gonna give it to them 'cause they, I get more. That's not I just don't see how that's a sustainable model that you can work with. Just doesn't, doesn't sit right with me at all.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being an affiliate or something.

No, no. I, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I've been an

affiliate for 22 plus years. I mean, I've been an affiliate for a long time. I don't recommend things that I haven't used and endorse and love. So there's my kind of that, that's why I'm using it. but, but at, at the same time, yeah. I make no apologies for being an affiliate.

Nobody has ever had to pay any more money for whatever it is I'm recommending. They have. Usually I have a kind of,some sort of commission deal where I can get a reduction for them by them using my link. So it's more beneficial for them to sign up that way. And quite often I'll get people sign up for a tool or service or whatever and they goes, yeah, I can't get it to work, and I'll jump on a Zoom with 'em and I'll show them how to do it.

And they'd be like, that's fantastic. But for me, I'm just like, well, I just want them to have as good an experience of using it [00:53:00] as I had with it.

Yeah, but I agree. I'm not gonna refer someone to someone just because they pay me more, so to speak. I think, I think when people have a need, if you are not the fit for them and you do try to find the right person for them, if you have that list of, of referrals, partners you can send them to, it always comes back to you, right?

So, not referring just because you quote unquote get paid, but we're referring because you feel like that's gonna be the best fit for that person. I feel like that al, that that always comes back to us. We can't

without the things in the world, not good things back.

Yeah. And, and whenever I attend a conference, I always go and watch first time speakers, people that have never spoken before, and quite often I'll be like encouraging them from the sidelines to do well.

'cause again, I just want people to have a success by doing it. So quite often, I used to go to a conference and we had this thing called the speakers enclave, where the existing speakers had spoken a lot and first timers, And the existing people would help If you like, quell the fears of the people that were gonna go on stay for the first time [00:54:00] and just talk 'em through how to deal with it.

And,and that then that way everyone's getting something out of it. And some, and some of the people that I went to watch them speak for the first time, I've ended up recommending them to go, to other conferences, to keynote because they were so good. And,and they, and they've done incredible things on the back of just that, that recommendation.

'cause again, I, I would never do it unless I'd actually sat in the room. And watch them. And whenever I go to a conference to, to watch speakers, even if the topic is nothing that I've got a, a kind of any degree of interest in, I will always go to the very front, sit at the very front, right. So I can make very close eye contact with the person speaking, see how they command the stage, how they hold the microphone.

again, there's nothing worse than people presenting, slides with 12 bullet points on it, and they're just reading it line by line by line. It's just well, I didn't need you to be on the stage to do that. I could, I could have read it myself. So,

Yeah. But yeah, I, I feel like it's always important that you go up and thank the speaker. I just find that [00:55:00] if someone's put theirselves out there and provided great value and information.

yeah.

Just to go up and say thank you. That's one of the things that, and I've made some great connections that way.

Literally not oh, I'm a fan girl, I wanna meet you. But literally just, Hey, you did a great job. Thank you so much. I learned something. And next thing

know, conversation strikes something like you say you just never I always try and do a praise sandwich,Tell 'em that they did really well. What, what you liked and what you, what you thought they did well, something that they probably could do better next time if they did it.

And then come back to more praise to send them out, so,

Oh, that's awesome.

oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I, at the end of the day that's, they've, they've taken a lot of time and effort. Effort. I remember one of the guys I was working with, he, he was invited to, to present at a conference here in the uk and his present, it is it had a sort of speed round, right?

And each person had seven minutes to present. And I swear to God, this guy must have done 22 hours worth of prep for a seven minute presentation. He was, he was like literally going on stage hyperventilating. He was so [00:56:00] nervous. I'm like, mate, you have, you have, you are so accomplished in delivering this topic.

you've got it right down to the second, right. The seven minutes p to the second. Just get up there and just do it. And he did, and he did a great job. Again, he picked up other speaking gigs on the back of that 'cause he was so thorough in what he'd done.

Face.

Oh

my gosh. Jim, I think you and I could talk about lots of topics for hours. This has been

and, and, but, but, conversation.

But you know, I, like I said, I, I, as I said before, I appreciate the time that people have spent with us, if they're still watching at this point. Fantastic. It's lovely to have them here still.

but, Kirsten, I wanted to just one, thank you for, for being such a phenomenal guest. How can people, I mean all your information will be in the show notes so they can get it there, but if there was one particular place you wanted them to, to find you follow, you do something, sign up for something, where, where would that be?

Yeah. I'm just gonna send you guys to our website, which is sixfigurebusinesscoaching.com,There we [00:57:00] have links to both of our podcasts. we have links to some free resources, and we talk about

our different programs and how we serve our client and,

and your podcast.

Certainly the one I watched was, was very good. I enjoyed it immensely. Even though I'm not necessarily your, you target demographic, I still enjoyed it nonetheless.

Thank I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a great time.

Good. It's been fantastic. And again, if, at some point in time I'm gonna get to the point where I'm gonna go, who could I get to come back and do a kind of follow up, interview And I'd love to have you back at some point in time in the future.

I would be honored. Thank you.

Great. Thank you.